Hey Guys,
We're shopping for a new router. We need something reliable and solid, we will have about 10+ computers plus 5 or so phones.
It would be an option to combine ADSL and Wireless but not required.
Was looking at the Cisco 850 series, anyone had any luck? We will be setting up some remote phones aswell.
We need good VPN capability and authentication also.
Look forward to your recomendations.
Thank you.
$300 would but you a very nice used Cisco 3620 with two Fast Ethernet interfaces and the firewall feature set.
If you are not a Cisco fan you could pick up a used Juniper/Netscreen 5GT - full firewall and router.
These are enterprise grade devices that sold for 10x new.
Scott
Scott
aka "Skyking"
How about a nice Alix 2c2 board (http://www.pcengines.ch/alix2c2.htm) running pfSense (http://pfSense.org)?
You get solid hardware with decent specs for around 200$ (board, case, AC adaptor), and then the software is free and much more flexible than your standard home or even office router.
You get firewall, router and VPN features all in and you avoir the Cisco licensing ;)
You get firewall, router and VPN features all in and you avoir the Cisco licensing ;)
If the used device has the license you want on it you are good to go!
I have no doubt there is an open source alternative to Cisco/Juniper/Checkpoint et al
Personally I can't get past the learning curve. I can find a sample config on the Net for the most complex configs on IOS.
By nature we do what we are more comfortable with. That's why I try and mention the secondary market. It has served me very well.
Scott
Scott
aka "Skyking"
IPCop/Smoothwall are both very robust firewall which include good VPN endpoint support.
The cost will just be the price of an old pc lying around....
However you don't get the nice support from a big vendor.
BUT if you're willing to experiment a little, try it out...it is free afterall. We use it here for our business and have phones accross 3 sites as well Email/Web servers
2nd the alix + pf
I 2nd the Cisco line...an 871 will set you back a little bit more, but it's a very capable router. You can always go the used route too and save some bones. The model mentioned previously is also a decent router and will be easy to find used.
IOS is a somewhat complicated to learn, but as mentioned previously, there is a LOT of info out on the net for them. The 871 will also come with a web based configuration utility that will work for 99% of your needs.
if youre not looking for anything nuts like the above...
the D Link DIR 655 has gigabit ethernet + wan, 802.11N wifi...
Im running it at HOME now, with about 15 phones and 5 computers + 3 laptops...
calls are prioritized, sound great.
cost you under 150.. but this is mainly for HOME use
Hey guys,
Thanks for all your replies.
The D-Link would be an option but I need something that is more commercial grade.
I dont want to setup a whole PC to do the job of a router, I would rather just get a box with no moving parts to reduce hardware failure.
The Cisco 3620 is an option but I dont really want to go used... Too many problems there. Unless its really worth it. Can anyone tell me why this would be a good buy? I found one for about $260. How does it compare against the newer 850 series?
No on have any comment on the Cisco 850 series?
What about a Cisco compeditor such as SonicWall??
Great advice though, keep it coming. Thank you again!
I dont want to setup a whole PC to do the job of a router, I would rather just get a box with no moving parts to reduce hardware failure.
You don't have to use a PC with moving parts. You can get compact flash adapter very cheap on ebay. Don't underestimate the power of linix/freeBSD based firewalls. The software is free and is FANTASTIC!
Coupled with either an old pc (with a compact flash adapter so no moving hard drive) or even a low power VIA EPIA (which we use), the results are FANTASTIC! The VIA EPIA are fanless too!
Seriously, I'm not kidding - give it a good and you'll see how much money you could save!
I did mention the 871 in my post...but I guess I should've been more specific. The 871 is from the 800 series line of routers. The biggest differences between the models are the connectivity types (e.g. ethernet vs. adsl) and then the options that come with it. For example, an 851 is similar to an 871, without the wireless. As I mentioned, they are very capable routers...I have an 871 (replaced an older 3600 series router) and haven't had problems with it from day one.
If you go this route, do yourself a favor and purchase the larger flash card and a SmartNet contract so you can download new versions of IOS. The IOS versions these days are simply too big for the flash card that's sold in the default router. There are cheaper 3rd party flash cards available for the 8xx series and they work fine. The memory only needs an upgrade if you intend to run advanced IP services in a busy environment.
You can find out more about Cisco 8xx series routers here:
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/routers/ps380/index.html
buying a used cisco 3620 or a new 871w won't make much of a difference warranty wise. Cisco only has a 90 day warranty. You have to buy a smartnet if you want any warranty with cisco.
The stock 871w will run the advanced ip services for the most part. You just have to delete all the junk off of the flash and it will fit just fine. We do it daily. I'd highly recommend the 871w.
851w has wireless problems so stay away from that guy.
I don't get all the Cisco replies here with all the pointers for service and warranty and licensing and firmware problems... This just reassures my choice for FOSS.
Alix boards are embedded devices running on compact flash cards and no hard drives. They will take 6"x6" of space and consume about 3-5W. You can get an Atheros wireless card in it and still come up under 200$. IPCOP and Smoothwall are decent, so is M0n0wall, but IMHO pfSense is the winner in all free firewalls out there.
I found one for about $260. How does it compare against the newer 850 series?
The 3620 is much faster and a commercial grade router. The 860 is a small office/home office unit. New compares to a 2811 in power.
$260 sounds too cheap. I want to repeat you need one with 2 Fast Ethernet interfaces and versions 12.2 or greater software with the firewall feature set.
Now here is where I have a different angle on things, but when buying used I look at the savings and buy a backup. Now you have a complete configured spare.
If you decide to go this route don't hesitate to buy the chassis with the right software and the Fast Ethernet interfaces. There is no hardware configuration the interfaces are plug and play.
As far as the software between the 850 and the 3620 is form factor and power. Unless buy a very very old router they all run the current software.
What about a Cisco compeditor such as SonicWall??
The SonicWall is pure trash. It tries to be everything and does nothing well.
Scott
Scott
aka "Skyking"
zurv - as said - the alix and microtik are both solid state router boards (google them). while the microtik platform is a bit more costly, both are excellent choices, and require almost no command line skills (ReadingTFM, tells you 1 or 2 needed preliminary commands - then all gui).
sonicwall is the worst choice you could pick - they will make their fortune from you, if you want one i can sell you one for cheap - you would save more with a cisco, and even more with a pfsense (note- pfsense is a fully supported platform - pay only as you need it).
Cisco replies here with all the pointers for service and warranty and licensing and firmware problems... This just reassures my choice for FOSS.
I will tell you my opinion, and keep in mind I am an Open Source advocate.
However I just did a quick look on the Alix. I can't find any end to end configs.
Show me how to setup NAT, a few ipSEC tunnels, a .1q interface, QoS an access list and handful of route entries. Does it support in a documented way EIGRP, OSPF and BGP?
With IOS I can find that config in 2 minutes on the web, it's in one nice readable flat file. If the OP ever decides to get A T1 line or any other type of serial interface the modules are readily available.
Alix is running embedded Linux, that means it is using an application written by one person for access lists (probably ipchains or iptables) another for routing, another for QoS. They are not integrated in any reasonable way.
service and warranty and licensing and firmware problems.
Not sure what you are getting at. Cisco has publicly stated that IOS transfers with the base hardware. You can buy router Smartnet 8x5 NBD for $100 or less a year. How are you going to do that with an Alix board.
Myself and another guy support close to 1000 Cisco interfaces (I am not sure how many devices that works about to be. Probably around 300) and we have had 1 hardware failure this year.
I also have two years of experience with the development team over at Zynx http://www.znyx.com/products/hardware/ethernetswitches.htm trying to integrate their Linux based Ethernet switches. The project failed. VRRP would never work reliably.
Everything has it's place and there is a reason why Cisco has 95%+ of the edge and core switching markets. It's just not fair to compare FOSS in that space. The competition is with Juniper, Foundry and Extreme.
I am not a Cisco fan boy I am a realist. Personally Juniper rocks my world however JUNOS is unapproachable for the small/medium enterprise.
Scott
Scott
aka "Skyking"
Well put.
I've screwed around with many routers trying to find a good fit for our trixbox installs, we tried to settle on the 851w the router itself is fine but the wifi radio has a problem and doesn't work properly.
The 871w is flawless and pretty much does it all. There are no firmware problems, they just simply work. It's one piece of our solution I never give a 2nd thought to.
Heck, i've been running the same cisco pix firewall now for almost 10 years I think. Cisco is VERY VERY reliable.
The SonicWall is pure trash. It tries to be everything and does nothing well.
- i always wondered why they tried to use a 266mhz/64mb RAM system to do firewalling, spam filtering, attack blocking, active x filtering, content and url filtering, wireless, extensive reporting, vpn, antivirus - i think the list goes on. All this time they were trying to do evereything, but nothing well. now days they have slightly faster systems, and try to do even more
- wow - almost got excited there.
skykingoh:
I know Cisco products are good and reliable, that is not my point. I have used and supported several PIX VPN networks, I have moved several over to pfSense solutions. I have had equal success with Alix or Soekris boards (just embedded hardware, you won't find configs for these) running pfSense (sofware), and the config is much easier and just as complete.
They can easily handle all your basic or advanced Firewall needs, as well as IPSEC, OpenVPN, PPTP, load balancing and/or failover, traffic shaping/QoS, and many other things as well.
Check out a few screenshots when you have a minute to spare (http://www.pfsense.org/screenshots/), especially the many different traffic graphs, you will be impressed.
pfSense was forked from m0n0wall, which is based off of FreeBSD (not exactly Linux), and a small team of developers and contributors have worked hard to integrate or develop all of its features, so (contrary to trixbox for example), it does not seem like a "collection of projects", but rather a complete homogeneous product.
Overall I am not bashing Cisco, I just like seeing the (good) competition, and if I can help a FOSS project and still save money without sacrificing features or reliability, and that is the way I will go (hence I'm also using trixbox ;)).
/rant
Alix or Soekris boards (just embedded hardware, you won't find configs for these) running pfSense (sofware), and the config is much easier and just as complete.
My original thought was wrong. I knew about pfSense however from the tone of the original post I thought Alix was a Linux based firewall.
I am familiar with pfsense. I am not totally opposed, it would be on case by case basis what I would recommend.
The OP wanted a router and now we are talking about Firewalls. I think of routers and Firewalls discretely.
FreeBSD (not exactly Linux),
My first web server was on a BSD machine in the early 90's. Very familiar. Actually been meaning to try the Asterisk BSD port for fun.
Overall I am not bashing Cisco,
I am not bashing anything either (well SonicWall). I like to stir the pot to encourage discussion and thought (some would call this trouble making!)
Scott
Scott
aka "Skyking"
trouble is my middle name - you talkin to me?????
Member Since:
2007-05-12