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Gateway can choose between SIP or PSTN?

DustinW
Posts: 16
 Member Since:
2009-10-22
Submitted by DustinW on Sat, 06/19/2010 - 6:25am.

Ok, been a member and surfing/reading/researching for a while on this topic.

What I want:
To setup a TrixBox at my house for person use to manage 2-3 extenstions, 1 DID, a conference number, and voice mail. Also, I would like to setup a gateway device of some type, I'm assuming a Sipura or something similar, at a remote location connected to PSTN and one extension connected to FXO (or FXS, I can't remember the difference) ports. The point of the remote location is for my father (or whoever) to use my Trixbox that has unlimited channels for their low cost long distance. I'm hoping that I can also setup their local PSTN to receive all calls to them, and handle all outbound local calls. I will use my cell phone for any 911 purposes, and my father can use his PSTN for his 911 services.

I've read posts explaining how to configure a Sipura as a SIP extension (ATA) and as an external FXO interface using it as an extension and direct dialing. What can't seem to find is a post wanting a combination, like I am requesting.

Requirements:
- 1 x DID for Personal SIP Trunk Usage (Already Ordered and using with a softphone, would like to point this to TrixBox though)
- 1 x PSTN at remote site (Already in place)
- Home only uses SIP Trunk to provider for calls
- Remote Site Uses SIP Trunk for long distance
- Remote Site Uses LOCAL PSTN for local calls
- Remote site hardware less than or are around $100
- Remote site hardware no bigger than a standard home router ~(2"x9"x6")

I know I can accomplish this by using a light weight install of Trixbox or dd-wrt voice with * at the remote sites and doing some trunking, but I want the remote site to be as low cost as possible since the goal is to save the remote user money. Most people I would use this for are family and they don't want to spend the $10-$15 a month for long distance service on top of their already $20 a month local plans.

Concept:

Am I making any sense at all, and am I able to do what I want without bending the requirements too much?

Thank you for any help and assistance anyone can provide,

Dustin

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Astrosmurfer
Posts: 643
 Member Since:
2009-12-28
Yes, that will work.
Sat, 06/19/2010 - 8:08am

The description was accurate but, the diagram makes it crystal clear. Nice.

Yes, that will work nicely. You will need to do some call routing rules on the Sipura to tell it to route long distance calls over SIP, but it should not be too hard to figure out.

Route all inbound PSTN calls to FXS-2.
Route local FXS-2 calls to FXO-1.
Route FSX-2 long distance to SIP first and failover to FXO-1.

The only issue I might have with your setup is the connection to trixbox. This will create a dependence on your internet connection and your firewall and your trixbox. You could just as easily configure the Sipura to connect directly to a/the SIP provider. This simplifies things a bit and reduces the number of possible points of failure. That is in fact precisely the configuration that the Sipura turned Linksys and now Cisco SPA3201 was intended for. Page 23 in the official manual.
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/voice_ip_comm/csbpvga/ata/adminis...

This guide might be helpful as well.
http://www.jmgtechnology.com.au/spa_3102_guide.pdf



SkykingOH
Posts: 9537
 Member Since:
2007-12-17
Astrosmurfer's idea about
Sat, 06/19/2010 - 10:25am

Astrosmurfer's idea about the local gateway is great. Major kudos on the drawing. I am thinking about linking this post to our "how to ask for help" sticky as an example of a perfect post.

You also may want to consider a small appliance with trixbox at the remote location. That way you could IAX trunk and not have any NAT issues. You can run trixbox on just about anything, for years my home system (with 11 extensions) was an old SFF IBM PIII that drew about 30 watts.

If you don't put a local trixbox I would consider a VPN, it would allow the remote phones to be configured and managed easier.

Let us know how things go.

--

Scott

aka "Skyking"



DustinW
Posts: 16
 Member Since:
2009-10-22
Gee Garsh Golly
Sat, 06/19/2010 - 6:25pm

Well thanks for the props on my help requesting skills. Means a lot coming from the Skyking *no sarcasm intended*. :D
Anyone that has gmail can make that diagram I drew with google docs' drawing. Also, this would be a great example for your sticky as I know about 2% of VoIP technology and just verified my terminology with other posts so that my topic still made sense. If I, the VoIP n00b, can do a good post anyone can. heh heh

Now, back on topic. I'm not too worried about my internet stability because this is going to be something I am offering for free to friends and family that cannot afford the extra few dollars for long distance per month. My main motivation for this project was when I went to visit my father out of town a couple weeks ago and his calling card expires, yet they let him put money on it that he can't use. See his frustration was enough to make me want to help him out. I was thinking of coupling a wireless dd-wrt router with * built in at the remote site and creating an IAX2 trunk to my Trixbox. Then hosting the extension for the remote site's sipura 2000, 3102, etc on the dd-wrt router. That would help to circumvent any NAT issues completely that others seem to constantly have trouble with. On a side note, I'm not sure if I was completely clear on the call expectations. My SIP provider allows me to send whatever I want for caller-id, so I would assign my father's full number as his caller-id and forward that to the provider so that whoever he calls sees it's him and knows to call his number back. Also, I don't mind having his devices connect directly to the SIP provider; but like I said it's out of town (4 hours away) and I don't want to have to trouble shoot this over the phone..... He's not so computer savvy.

If that setup is valid , and assuming * on dd-wrt is stable with their latest releases, my upfront costs would be:

Home Location, not part of the original Post's Budget:
$190 = 1 x Dell Gx280 - eBay (P4 2.8Ghz w/ hyp. threading, 512MB of DDR2 RAM, 40GB Sata HDD)
$119 = 1 x Asus RT-N16 w/ dd-wrt for MilkFish (still pending testing)
======
$309, I did not calculate in my internet fees because I'm a nerd and I have the 24Mpbs connection regardless of this setup or not....

Remote Location (Higher than the original budget, but still affordable for me):
$119 = 1 x Asus RT-N16 w/ dd-wrt for MilkFish (still pending testing)
~$50 = 1 x Sipura (Saw a few different models on eBay between $25 used and $70 new)
===
$169

When I was testing TrixBox a year ago I had it running on a GX280. Also on that GX280, I had VMWare server running with a Windows XP Pro install running with direct access to the USB ports for Magic Jack. Worked great with 4 extensions, except MagicJack doesn't end that call when the other person hangs up. It just puts you back at a dial tone and I couldn't get my clone FXS card to detect the stinking dial tone to force the hangup, which landed me with quite a few 10 minute voice mails. That's a whole other topic though.

Anyway, I'll keep you posted on my progress. Might be a slow project though. I'm not sure how I'm going to squeak a couple hundred bucks out of the budget without the wife seeing it. ;)

Dustin



DustinW
Posts: 16
 Member Since:
2009-10-22
PS
Sat, 06/19/2010 - 6:27pm

Could I call myself a professional if I just threw a question on the forum without research or a clear explanation of design and requirements? lol



Astrosmurfer
Posts: 643
 Member Since:
2009-12-28
I'm not going to argue too
Sun, 06/20/2010 - 8:20am

I'm not going to argue too strongly against a remote Asterisk server but, lest we over engineer this solution...

A remote Asterisk server does add to the cost.
A remote Asterisk server does make the whole thing much more fiddly.
A remote Asterisk server does increase the number of points of possible failure.
A remote Asterisk server is not at all required for the stated functionality. (Is IAX alone worth that much?)

My Keep It Simple Stupid(KISS) recommendation is to use an SPA3201 or similar device that has an FXS and FXO port, and power fail port bridging!, to connect a SIP trunk back to your Asterisk box or directly to a SIP provider. These ATAs have more than enough features to do the desired call routing and a lot more.

Your concerns of supporting the device remotely are no different for the SPA3201 alone than for the SPA3201 AND an Asterisk box. They can both be done over the POTS line and via a GoToMyPC or LogMeIn type remote control session.



DustinW
Posts: 16
 Member Since:
2009-10-22
Yup
Sun, 06/20/2010 - 3:13pm

You are right about those added points of a remote * server. I'm going to stick to the original idea.

What is this power fail port bridging? I think read about that in another post, is that when the power goes out it just bridges the FXS/FXO ports?

If so, that's perfect. Would "power failure port bridging" be the technical term for that solution, and do you have any recommended ATA models that you know support this for ~$50?

If I did put a remote * server, it would be built in to dd-wrt to replace the remote existing wan/lan gateway because of physical size. If dd-wrt quits working, then say good bye to LogMein, extended remote desktop, my-pc-anywhere, etc. One of my optional requests is to keep this as non impacting and transparent to the end user as possible and having an extra server laying at the remote site might not fly, even for the free solution I am putting together. So dd-wrt w/ * fits perfectly for that.

***Edit***
If the power did go out, or the remote site lan/wan router did start acting up, would I be able to dial directly in to the ATA for management/troubleshooting?



SkykingOH
Posts: 9537
 Member Since:
2007-12-17
If you run dd-wrt at the
Sun, 06/20/2010 - 3:19pm

If you run dd-wrt at the remote location with Asterisk it can work as an Emergency Proxy so when the Internet is down the SIP phone can still use the local POTS line.

With POTS line bridging only the analog phone would continue to work.

--

Scott

aka "Skyking"



DustinW
Posts: 16
 Member Since:
2009-10-22
Good thinking. I think I am
Mon, 06/21/2010 - 12:19pm

Good thinking. I think I am going to do this in stages with a special quasi lab setup:

Stage 1 - Prove Trixbox configuration with provider, $190 (GX280):
- Setup Trixbox at my house with my DID
- Configure a Cisco 7962 at my house to make sure it works

Stage 2 - Prove Sipura as PSTN gateway device, $50 (Sipura):
- Configure Sipura as extension C
- Connect to magicjack and telephone

Stage 3 - Prove dd-wrt as VOIP aware firewall, $119 (ASUS router):
- Setup dd-wrt with General VOIP image for VOIP aware firewall/router
- Setup second subnet to host the Cisco 7962 connection from
- Test connecting the 7962 to Trixbox through the NAT firewall

Stage 4 - Prove dd-wrt as * Proxy, $119 ( Another ASUS Router):
- Configure LAB to have dd-wrt simulate a remote site w/ asterisk
- ****configure and test remote proxy**** need to do more research on this step

Stage 5 - Implement and Test Proofs, $0 (Purchased in previous testing stages):
- Put dd-wrt w/ General Voip image as production LAN router
- Put trixbox in production LAN at Home
- Configure Home Trixbox for SIP Provider usage
- Put dd-wrt w/ * at remote site as production remote LAN router
- Configure dd-wrt w/ * as remote proxy
- Connect Sipura to production Remote LAN, remote PSTN, and remote internal phone line
- Configure and test 7962 to user remote * Proxy
- Test remote configuration
-- Call local number from standard phone and check Home Trixbox for active SIP calls
-- Call long distance from standard phone and check Home Trixbox for active SIP calls
-- Repeat test steps 1 and 2 for 7962
-- Disable remote site Internet
---- Call Local from standard phone
---- Call Local from 7962

What do you think? Good plan? I can provide pictures later if you would like, I'm not at home right now.



SkykingOH
Posts: 9537
 Member Since:
2007-12-17
I am amazed
Mon, 06/21/2010 - 1:24pm

What do I think? I don't even know where to start.

What I think is that is a great plan and an excellent strategy.

It is also better documented than most commercial integrators I see.

All you need to do is add some dates and you have a project plan.

You have set a new standard for excellent first posts, "getting it" and then following through with a cogent, well documented plan.

--

Scott

aka "Skyking"



Astrosmurfer
Posts: 643
 Member Since:
2009-12-28
Squirrel!
Mon, 06/21/2010 - 2:24pm

Squirrel!



DustinW
Posts: 16
 Member Since:
2009-10-22
Updates
Thu, 06/24/2010 - 12:25pm

Updated design document. After both of you suggested I use a remote asterisk device and the research I did, I am going to do it.

I'm still very fresh to the extensions.conf files so that is a work in progress. I kind of skipped ahead in stages because I have an ASUS RT-N16 w/ dd-wrt and * already so I tested it's ability to handle the load. I've only had one call at a time, and it seems to handle that just fine.

Another thing I am not so sure about is the trunk between the remote asterisk and the central office (home) trixbox. Do I just make a SIP or IAX2 trunk and then forward calls across the trunk as necessary, or is there actually some kind of proxy specific configuration?

Thanks for all of the info so far,

Dustin



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